Countdown to Age of Ultron: Iron Man 2 Revisited

Sometimes a great work of art has an intentional flaw so you know it was was made by a human being. Let’s pretend that’s what Marvel Studios was going for with Iron Man 2. A chink in the armor, as it were.

Let’s get this over with!

RG: It’s spring, 2010. I had very recently become a mother and was excited about a night out at the movies. We open on Moscow and I am buzzing with excitement over this new Iron Man movie that is definitely going to be FANTASTIC.

Like The Incredible Hulk, I have only seen Iron Man 2 once. It's the only one I've been dreading re-watching. And now that I have…

Those brief opening minutes when I thought this movie would be good.

RG: I actually like the Stark Expo. It's completely ridiculous but it's very Tony. They should have just filmed it at ComicCon. I also like John Slattery as Howard Stark, even though nothing he does in this movie makes sense. And he looks nothing like Dominic Cooper.

Tony Stark looks ten years older in this movie. Gwyenth Paltrow looks fantastic. Rhodes looks better, too.

I reacted to Garry Shandling's appearance in this movie the same way I reacted when he showed up in The Winter Soldier: spit take. I always forget he's in these movies.

DH: He looks weird in this but not nearly as weird as he does in Captain America: The Winter Soldier, where he seems to be auditioning for a Henry Kissinger biopic. I can’t tell if he had too much Botox injected into his face, or if he’s just aging strangely, but he looks hideous!

RG: I also forgot that Sam Rockwell is in this movie.

DH: The way Rockwell is used here is very similar to the way Topher Grace is used as Eddie Brock in Spider-Man 3--he’s not very close to his comic book counterpart, but instead is basically a smarmy doppelganger of our hero. A good villain provides contrast with the hero, but having a villain who’s only slightly more of an ass than the hero isn’t very interesting to watch.

RG: Yes, that is exactly right. And, actually, everyone in this movie talks like Tony Stark. Justin Hammer is Tony Stark. James Rhodes is Tony Stark. Black Widow is Tony Stark. It's the worst.

“The first one changed everything for me and with the second ‘Iron Man’ there were certain aspects that were dissatisfying and disappointing to me but at least they lit me right.”

— Robert Downey Jr., Los Angeles Times, 2011

“Here we knew that people were going to show up. We just wanted to make sure that everyone who showed up had a good time and that this was going to be fun or more fun than the last party. So it’s a different kind of pressure.”

— Jon Favreau, Iron Man 2 Press Conference, 2010

DH: The movie seems to start out from a very odd notion that, somehow, by building a robot suit, Tony Stark seems to have brought about world peace. Every TV news talking head in this movie is always going on about how he protects everyone, and when he’s at the Senate subcommittee hearing Tony is boasting about how he’s responsible for the longest period of uninterrupted peace in years or something. Then later, when things aren’t going so well for Tony, everyone is all like “How will Iron Man protect us?” The script is kind of childishly simple in that respect. One guy in a battle suit = total world peace within two years, a peace that is also completely dependent on the reliability of that one guy. What?

RG: It's beyond dumb.

Will be performing his Mindfreak magic act all month in Vegas.

RG: Whiplash is a terrible choice for a villain, and Mickey Rourke is a terrible choice to play him. And it looks like he refused wardrobe and just wore his own clothes. He also got really involved in choosing the tattoos for his character, and apparently paid for the bird and the gold teeth with his own money. What is with Marvel's obsession with getting very difficult to work with Oscar nominees in these films? It never works, guys! It's like the ice cream machine on Chopped!

DH: I have no idea what that means.

RG: Every time Mickey Rourke is on the screen my brain screams WHO CARES?! Look, he's a perfectly good actor when he wants to be and he really does try hard with this stupid, stupid character, but still...

“Question: ‘Can you talk about how much fun it was to play this character, Mickey?’
Rourke: ‘I had a lot of fun.’”

— Iron Man 2 Press Conference, 2010

RG: Ok, so let's talk about Black Widow, because this is where she is introduced. Don't remember that? It's completely forgettable. Why was she in the boxing ring with Happy? I mean, seriously, why? And why would she kick his ass? Isn't she supposed to be undercover?

I'm trying to enjoy her more in this movie than I did the first time because now I know where her character ends up. I mean, she is seriously so great in The Avengers and in Winter Soldier. Thank God. I was so depressed after I saw this movie the first time.

I'm so glad they fix her hair in the next movie.

RG: THE CAR RACING SCENE IS SO BORING AND DUMB!!!

Seriously save it for a movie that doesn't have a guy with a FLYING ROBOT SUIT. Happy driving a car the wrong way on a race track: that is some intense super hero action.

The Iron Man briefcase: cool or ridiculous? Dave?

DH: I’m gonna go with cool. I wish we’d gotten to see more of that red and silver suit, too. Pretty sharp.

"This is my travel-size suit."

RG: Drunk Tony Stark in Iron Man costume DJing: hilarious or horrible? I honestly can't decide.

DH: I kind of snickered and then immediately rolled my eyes. It’s a pretty cheap gag.

RG: THE ORIGIN STORY OF WAR MACHINE: Rhodes puts on a suit to stop drunk Tony from skeet shooting champagne bottles!!! This movie is terrible!!!

I will say this: nothing makes me laugh like an Iron Man suit emoting. Whether it's in these movies or in the comics. Always funny.

I don't wanna wait for our liiiiiiiiiives to be over...

Also funny: the scene in the donut shop with Fury where Tony is still wearing the suit. It's also the reveal of Black Widow, which I remembered being much later in the movie, so yay!

Can you imagine sitting while wearing that suit? That must feel so weird.

DH: Her presence in this movie is badly handled, but I love Scarlett Johansson as Black Widow. I mean, I know she’s not really kicking those guys’ asses, but for me it’s like Christopher Reeve as Superman: I know he’s not really flying, but he sells it with his performance. He makes you believe it. And she makes you believe she can beat the everloving bejesus about of anyone in the room.

“At the end of the day you’ve got some nerd with a pocketful of money calling the shots. You know, Favreau didn’t call the shots. I wish he would have.”

— Mickey Rourke, Crave Online, 2011

Bathroom break!

RG: I don't like how GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! GUNS! this movie is. It's exactly what I feared these movies would be and it's exactly what they don't do in the excellent movies that come after this one. As I am watching this I am thinking about how great Captain America: The First Avenger is and tears are streaming down my face.

I actually think the climax scene at the Hammer Expo with all the drones and Rhodes being controlled by Venko is pretty good. Not amazing, but a decent Iron Man action scene. Black Widow's action scene at the end is also pretty rad.

DH: It all looks cool and everything, but as I was watching it this time, I found myself asking “What is anyone even trying to accomplish in this scene?” Like, everything’s going fine at the Expo, but then Tony shows up and says “These people are all in danger”, and then Vanko activates the Hammeroids (gotta admit, that one is pretty funny) and all hell breaks loose. What exactly would have happened if Tony hadn’t shown up? What exactly was the plan here?

Don't let this image fool you. This movie is not good.

RG: I do love the botanical garden setting where Tony and Rhodes' fight ends. One of my favourite things about superhero movies is when they place the characters in costume in ridiculous settings.

Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil

But then Whiplash shows up in a stupid robot suit with electrowhips, and Rhodes is not kidding when he says "This isn't going to be good." It is not good at all.

DH: One of the biggest problems with this movie is that it’s a superhero movie with only two (maybe three, if you count the fight between Tony and Rhodey at the party) action scenes--the fight in Monaco, and the fight at the end. Why would you want to watch, or make, a superhero movie with almost no action in it? It’s like when people tell me they like The Ultimates because it’s what superheroes would really be like if they existed. Do people want to read superhero comic books for gritty realism? I read ‘em to ESCAPE gritty realism! And I don’t watch superhero movies to see people arguing about parrots or strawberry allergies or trying to make imaginary elements or whatever! I’ve already compared this movie to Spider-Man 3 (which, for the record again, you and I enjoyed), and it’s also similar to most of the Batman sequels in that it has more than one villain who separately bedevil our hero, then join forces to try and destroy them. But unlike Iron Man 2, those movies have action scenes peppered throughout them. This movie is just tedious.

Oh yeah, and that whole subplot about Tony’s heart slowly killing him is complete nonsense. Howard Stark hid a puzzle inside the Stark Expo, which you can only see using holographic technology that wouldn’t have existed at that point, knowing that his son would have one day built a robot suit and then needed a new artificial heart because the old one was killing him? Is that what happened? I honestly have no idea.

I know, Tony. I know. It's stupid.

RG: YES! Oh my GOD that subplot was weak. It's just so low stakes, too. Tony's thingamajig is killing him. Ok, so he'll build a better one. It's just not interesting.

DH: “Well, son, you had a circle and now it’s killing you, so what you REALLY need is a triangle.”

RG: Speaking of not interesting, who doesn't have a custom robot suit in this movie? Almost no one.

So many people are dying all over the city right now.

RG: Rhodes providing commentary on Tony and Pepper's kiss is so weird but pretty funny. I do love Don Cheadle. Rhodes probably should have been saving people from those exploding robots, though, instead of lounging on a rooftop watching his friends make out. Again, very little superheroing in this movie.

The Thor tease at the end of the credits is the best part of this movie.

Finally! Something cool!

Alright! It’s over! I never have to watch that movie again until they produce the very last Marvel movie and Dave and I inevitably watch all seventy of them from the beginning.

We move on now to Thor, Captain America: The First Avenger, and The Avengers, which means I will be in a state of constant arousal for several days!

Countdown to Age of Ultron: The Incredible Hulk Revisited

One movie down, nine more to go. Time to wade through some mediocrity before we get to the good stuff! Let’s check out The Incredible Hulk, which is definitely not the strongest Marvel movie there is.

WHAT IS THIS MOVIE???!!!!

RG: I have only seen The Incredible Hulk once, and it was opening night in theatres.

I've actually seen the Ang Lee one more, but those were desperate times. This movie came out mere weeks after Iron Man, and before The Dark Knight. For those reasons, I think it was largely forgotten even at the time. Normally this movie would have been a pretty huge release. I remember liking it at the time, but then The Dark Knight hit theatres and I never really thought about poor Hulk again. I also got married in there somewhere.

DH: Yeah, being sandwiched in between Iron Man and The Dark Knight must have really sucked. But if the movie had turned out better than it did, I think it would be remembered better.

RG: I think it's weird that they made this a sequel to the Ang Lee movie, but I'm thankful we didn't have to sit through another origin story.

DH: Is it a sequel to the Ang Lee movie, though? I think the opening credits make it plain that it’s some kind of weird hybrid between the comics and the Bill Bixby/Lou Ferrigno TV show. They certainly hit you over the head with enough references to that series in the first hour--Bixby in The Courtship Of Eddie’s Father on TV, the sad piano music from the end of every episode, Ferrigno’s cameo as a security guard, and the whole “You wouldn’t like me when I’m...hungry” bit. It’s a strange way to go, for sure, and I think the way Hulk was used in The Avengers (where he also seemed to be an updated version of the TV incarnation) definitely showed that this movie was not really necessary. And yet, here it is.

"Look, I don't need this shit. I'm Ed Norton."

RG: My favourite thing about this movie is the intensity of feeling your own anger levels rise with Banner's. I love the anger management training sessions, where the teacher is slapping Bruce in the face. I love the tension throughout the movie of not knowing what's going to make him angry enough to Hulk out. He just keeps getting put in situations that are stressful and rage-inducing. I really love the heart rate monitor he wears. It's a great idea.

“I actually said ‘no’ to Hulk a couple of times and it was only over a few conversations with Louis and with the Marvel guys when I really started to trust they were at the stage of not just looking for an actor but really looking for an author, in a way. I thought it was a rare opportunity.”

— Ed Norton, The Daily Record, 2008

I think this movie does a great job of getting to the root of what makes Banner/Hulk an interesting character. Unlike the other Avengers, he is pure tragedy. All he wants is to be cured. Contrast that against Thor, who really, really loves being Thor. Banner lives in constant fear of himself and that is really heavy.

"Maybe I can somehow transform myself into Mark Ruffalo?"

I think Ed Norton is a great Bruce Banner. I was really disappointed at the time when I learned that he wouldn't be in the Avengers movie, but we all love Mark Ruffalo. It seems like playing Bruce Banner/Hulk in the Avengers movies is a pretty sweet deal. No action scenes, just crack a few jokes, look all disheveled, and then a motion capture actor and voice actor does all the work for you. But I guess Ed Norton hates money. One man's trash is Mark Ruffalo's treasure.

DH: I guess we’ll never know, but I feel like Ruffalo is a better ensemble player than Norton would have been. They definitely have different approaches, and Norton’s is closer to the Banner from the comics, but Ruffalo’s take is much more charming and idiosyncratic. Norton’s Banner is much more in the fugitive loner vein, and I don’t know how well that would have worked in The Avengers.

“When people are asking me, because Mark Ruffalo is in this one, who’s the better of the Bruce Banners — both are great; both are fantastic — but I actually wanted to cast Mark Ruffalo as Hulk and Marvel was like ‘No, you should get Edward Norton because he’s more famous.’ So you see what I am saying? They are the ones who wanted Edward — and I was thrilled to meet him and work with him. I wanted Mark Ruffalo. And they were like, ‘No, no, he just does smart, intellectual movies.’”

— Louis Leterrier, The Huffington Post, 2013

RG: Ruffalo was a great get for the franchise. Besides generally being the best person on Earth, he is a huge promoter of the movies, seems to really embrace the fans and loves being the Hulk. I doubt Ed Norton would have been as enthusiastic. Well, I guess we know he wouldn't because he didn't do anything to promote this movie because he was all angry at the studio for cutting parts of his script. Yeah, he basically re-wrote the whole script uncredited.

But in this film, Norton does a great job being funny and sad and noble. I actually think Mark Ruffalo would have been a weird casting choice for this particular movie. 

Norton’s small frame works well as a contrast between Banner and Hulk. He really looks like Bruce Banner from the comics quite a bit.

Full Bruce Banner mode.

“When I arrived in Hollywood, [“Incredible Hulk”] was my first Hollywood movie and I really wanted to work with Marvel and I really wanted to do that movie with American actors. And then they were like, “Oh, welcome, welcome. Great news, Louis. We just got a release date. It’s a year from now.” I’m like, “Fantastic, we have to go. Where’s the script?” They said, ‘Actually, that’s the problem, we don’t have a script.’”

— Louis Leterrier, The Huffington Post, 2013

Tim Roth was well cast. Liv Tyler is also good as LITERALLY THE ONLY WOMAN WITH A SPEAKING PART IN THIS MOVIE.

DH: Tim Roth was fine, but...why doesn’t he speak with a Russian accent? His name is Emil Blonsky, for crying out loud!

RG: "Born in Russia, raised in England." Ok, movie. Whatever.

DH: And as for the female presence in this movie, I think you’re forgetting all about the key roles of “sexy Brazillian factory worker” and “subordinate who hands General Ross a file or whatever”.

RG: "Anonymous fat lady whose ass is used to measure pants for Hulk levels of stretchiness." Ugh. That joke.

Hey, Martin Starr cameo in this movie!!! Did not remember that.

Yeah!

DH: Me neither! Plus there’s that weird Michael Kenneth Williams cameo during the final battle. I think maybe they were both just big Hulk fans?

"I was crying when I met you, now I'm trying to forget you..."

RG: It's kind of weird that Betty Ross is written right out of the Hulk's story after this movie. They really love each other. I actually think this is the strongest romantic pair in any of the Marvel movies.

DH: Moreso than Steve Rogers and Peggy Carter? I’m honestly surprised to hear you say that!

RG: No, you’re right. And actually, Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes probably takes the top spot. BUT...Betty is willing to overlook a LOT with Bruce. I mean, falling in love with Captain frigging America is no chore. Betty’s love is FIERCE.

"Your love is sweet misery..."

The cave scene with Hulk and Betty is very funny and sweet and has a nice King Kong vibe. And I love everything about the hotel room scenes, especially the aborted sex scene. That heart rate monitor, again, is a great idea. Their relationship is so strong whether he’s Banner or Hulk.

I like how Bruce Banner is completely drained and sick and out of it for quite a while after he stops being the Hulk. It makes for some nice hurt/comfort relationship storytelling.

"I just wanna stay with you In this moment forever, forever and ever..."

RG: There is some pretty lazy filmmaking in this movie, though. The chase scene in Brazil seems to go back and forth from day to night, and there is at least one scene where it’s pouring rain but clearly very sunny.

I don't care for the Hulk design in this movie. They really nail it in The Avengers. In this movie he is too veiny, a weird colour, and not big enough. The small head is weird too.

DH: He’s way over-rendered in this movie. He looks like a Rob Liefeld drawing. In the Ang Lee movie, he looks way too smooth and not detailed enough, and in this movie it’s like even his veins have veins. The FX guys behind The Avengers really did nail it, I think in part due to their use of motion capture technology.

"Hulk is not much taller than Tim Roth."

RG: You would think General Ross would see some value in the fact that his daughter seems to be able to control the Hulk. Like, wouldn't that be of use?

I like that General Ross basically turned Tim Roth into Captain America with a few injections. Is General Ross a scientist/doctor?

DH: It’s a nice bit of foreshadowing for what we would see with Cap, for sure, in terms of how he would fight.

“I’ve always been very envious of the guys who got to do these kinds of movies — ya know, I’ve always wanted to do one of these Marvel characters; I take my kids to see them all the time. And, finally, they came to me and I was thrilled to do it. So I decided to have fun from beginning to end, and they gave me the room to really invent and play with this character, and to make him a really juicy bad guy. Every day at the office was a good one for me.”

— Tim Roth, Moviefone, 2008

RG: Tim Blake Nelson, I'm sorry to say, is playing a very unwelcome character in this movie. His character is something that you would normally find in the worst super hero/sci-fi movies. Just annoying and delivering clunky lines as comic relief that really isn't funny. Lines like: "The mixture could be...an abomination."  Clunk.

DH: Definitely a weird bit of casting, but I am disappointed that we’ll probably never get to see him become The Leader, after they went through all the awkward motions of setting it up.

No.

RG: The final fight between Hulk and Abomination is actually a lot like the final fight in Iron Man. I never understand in any of these movies why the army keep shooting at Hulk when it clearly doesn't do a damn thing, and it only causes more destruction.

DH: I really hate the design of the Abomination in this movie. Why did they jettison a perfectly cool monster design for the weird, generic thing they came up with here? Why even bother making him the Abomination then? And his motivations are basically non-existent beyond “He took a bunch of drugs because he wants to be more of a badass soldier, and he went crazy”. A good, charismatic villain really elevates one of these movies--look at Loki in The Avengers, or the Red Skull in Captain America, for example--and this movie is sorely lacking in that department.

There are things I like about the final battle, but for the most part it feels like watching someone else play a video game--you’re just looking at a bunch of pixels moving across the screen. It’s all in how it’s directed, I guess, which is why you never hear anyone talking about what a great contribution Louis Letterier made to this series of films.

RG: The daylight fight scene in the field near the university was really dull and generic. too. The wide open setting made it pretty low stakes.

I do love the moment in the final fight when a Abomination returns for another round and Hulk looks so sad about it. That was probably an Ed Norton addition to the script.

"Hulk is saddest there is."

I think I get why they aren't making a new Hulk movie with Ruffalo. The storytelling is just very limited. It's mostly "Will this turn him into the Hulk?" "Will this cure work?" I know people want a Planet Hulk movie but I don't know if I agree with that. For now I like the Hulk as part of a team. Plus, who wants to see Tony Stark shoot Hulk into space? They're science bros!

DH: I think the only way a Planet Hulk movie would work at this point is if they had him meet up with the Guardians of the Galaxy. That could be interesting.

RG: That would be pretty great. And The Inhumans on his way back to Earth. And maybe we can see that awesome fight between Hulk and Black Bolt on film. I guess anything is possible these days. I hope they make that movie and then make a Hercules movie that comes out the same week.

"Roll camera on Hulk! Is magic hour!"

The Incredible Hulk really doesn't factor into the large Marvel Movieverse. You could definitely skip this one and not miss any of the story. The information they give you about Hulk at the beginning of The Avengers is really all you need to know. Nothing that happens in this movie ever comes up again. Even the tag at the end of the movie with Tony Stark doesn't really make any sense in the context of the movies that come later. We never see General Ross again. Why would Tony be telling General Ross about the Avengers? He tells him, re: Abomination, "That super soldier program was put on ice for a reason." Obviously it's supposed to get the film-going audience all riled up about Captain America (mission accomplished, as I recall), but the whole encounter is weird.

Cue card readin'

DH: All the teases for what would eventually become known as the Marvel Cinematic Universe are pretty vague and nonsensical, up until Thor’s hammer appears at the end of Iron Man 2. By that point they knew where they were going with the upcoming slate of movies since they were all being written or filmed, but before that it was all “here’s a guy you’ve seen, talking about a thing you’ve heard about”, and that’s about as specific as they could get. Now the teases are way more specific and substantial. Like everything else at this early stage of the MCU, it’s all very hastily sketched in. But really, these guys were pioneering a new type of long-form storytelling--a shared universe of smaller movie franchises that all feed into one mega-franchise--and they pretty much had to make it up as they went. On the other hand, though, it was pretty cool to see RDJ as Tony Stark on the big screen again, so soon after his first appearance as the character.

There are always elements of this movie that I kind of enjoy when I revisit it, but it is a weird anomaly in this whole series. It feels less like a movie and more like a placeholder or something. The pacing is very strange. It’s like watching a few episodes of a TV series, plucked from halfway through a season. It doesn’t really connect to the previous movie, and the connections it does try to make to what comes after it don’t really pan out.

RG: Also, as I mentioned, Betty Ross never even gets mentioned after this movie, and most of this movie was about their relationship. Maybe when they found out Ed Norton wasn't going to continue on as Banner they just dropped all references to this movie. I really did forget what a great love story this movie is.

I don't wanna miss a thing.

DH: Another bit of fanboy comic whining to get out of the way--it kinda bums me out that none of the Hulk movies have Rick Jones in them. He’s so central to the Hulk’s origin in the comics, and so important to the Avengers, and Captain America, and Captain Marvel, that it seems weird to me that he has no counterpart in the MCU. But, the whole audience surrogate character that he represents is usually the most tedious element of a lot of these kind of movies (like the ordinary guy they introduced for the first Hellboy movie, and immediately abandoned by the time they did another one). But, y’know, it would have been nice. Maybe he can get his own Netflix show?

RG: A Rick Jones Netflix series would be a great idea.

"This download is taking forever. Come on, seed, people!"

Alright, that’s it for Hulk. I will add that I checked out some of the 70 MINUTES of deleted scenes from this movie, including the alternate opening scene of Banner trying to kill himself in the Arctic. Not sad it was cut. And the Captain America Easter egg is bullshit.

Up next, Dave and I suffer through Iron Man 2!

Countdown to Age of Ultron – Iron Man Revisited

Are you guys excited about The Avengers: Age of Ultron? WE ARE!!!!

And because we look for basically any excuse to watch any or all of these movies, Dave and I are re-watching all of the Marvel Studios flicks, in order, leading up to the new one.

With the exception of the Thor movies, I think Dave and I saw all of the Avengers-verse films together on opening night, or advance screening night. Now we are watching them separately and sharing our thoughts. I thought it would be fun to compare our thoughts now that we know how huge this Marvel movie thing was going to get to how we felt when the movies were first coming out. We are also going to pull quotes from old interviews with the cast members and directors, just to add a little historical interest.

Some questions we hope to answer: Is Iron Man 2 as bad as we remember? Why am I so lukewarm on the Thor movies? Does The Incredible Hulk with Ed Norton fit in at all? Which is the best movie of the bunch so far? Why is Hawkeye so shitty?

So, starting where it all began, Dave and I watched Iron Man this week.

“I’m between two phases right now, pre-Iron Man and post-Iron Man, and the transition can be tricky…It’s not an algorithm anymore. It’s a fixed number. Things have been zeroed out; it’s the beginning of something.”

— Robert Downey Jr., Rolling Stone, 2008

RG: I don’t think I’ve watched this movie since like 2009. But I watched it a LOT of times before then. I’m trying to mentally go back to a time before any of these legit Marvel movies had come out.

DH: I’m a few years older than you, so I have even more years of crushed hopes and bitter disappointment with superhero movies (both planned and executed) under my belt. Deals were always being struck with studios and directors for comic movies that never came to pass, and until X-Men, Marvel was basically selling their movie rights for pennies to anyone who asked. Adding insult to injury was the fact that, when a good superhero movie like The Rocketeer came along, nobody went to see it. So Iron Man kind of had a lot riding on it.

“Is it too soon to say that Iron Man is going to be the greatest movie of all time? I don’t care. I’m saying it anyway.”

— Rachelle Goguen, Living Between Wednesdays, 2007

RG: Ok, it’s early 2008. In the past eight or so years we’ve had three Spider-Man movies (and I like all three of them, haters!), two terrible Fantastic Four movies, a weird Hulk movie, three kind of ok X-Men movies, a Superman movie that I really liked but most people didn’t, and one very promising beginning to a new Batman trilogy.

DH: I like Superman Returns too, and I also like all three Spider-Man movies. I even like the first Fantastic Four movie! Johnny and Ben at least were perfect. And I liked that it didn’t take itself too seriously, a “problem” that the upcoming reboot looks to have “fixed”.

RG: I secretly don’t hate that first Fantastic Four movie either. Any movie where Chris Evans burns all of his clothes off has some redeeming qualities. And it is fun.

I remember hopes being sky high for this Iron Man movie. The trailers looked great, seemed to be perfect casting, and Marvel Studios was actually making it. Most importantly, it looked fun. I also remember a general feeling that it seemed risky to be making an Iron Man movie. If Superman Returns didn’t draw big, how could a movie about a hero who isn’t Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man?

DH: It’s kind of hard to remember that RDJ was NOT one of the biggest stars on the planet before this movie, isn’t it? And that Tony Stark & Iron Man weren’t household names?

RG: Yeah! He was like stunt casting. Recovered alcoholic to play alcoholic super hero.

When I went to see it opening night I was both excited and worried. But the cold open of this movie is genius. It sets the tone and I think I was immediately sold on the whole thing within 60 seconds.

DH: Yep, it packs a lot of character information into a very short amount of time and is super fast paced. By the 45-minute mark, he’s already built the Mark 1 and blasted his way out of Afghanistan. Not bad!

Perfect.

RG: Watching it now I am still blown away by that opening scene. It not only sets the tone for this movie, it sets it for the entire Avengers franchise that is to follow. Robert Downey Jr, obviously, nails the character, and there’s a great blend of humour and real world drama.

Everything just looks perfect in this movie, too. From Tony Stark himself to his Malibu cliffside mansion to Pepper Potts to the suit(s) to Tony’s workshop. And the Robert Altman style dialogue-on-top-of-dialogue is a great idea.

DH: Robert Downey Jr. pretty much steps into this role fully formed, right from his first dialogue. He and Tony are interchangeable--I don’t think Marvel can ever recast this part. This one piece of perfect casting was basically the foundation stone of their entire empire.

“There’s no harm in being locked into a potentially lucrative franchise, and that’s why I did it.”

— Terrence Howard, The Guardian, 2008

RG: Remember how Terrence Howard was in this movie? They fixed that. Good move.

It's kind of sad when Terrence Howard looks at the new Iron Man suit and says "Next time, baby," because, y'know. Nope. I feel like that (awesome) scene on the plane where Tony and Rhodes are supposed to be drunk and Tony looks really annoyed with him...I don’t think that was acting.

Hate you so much.

DH: I’m not sure he was right for the part--he was the first person they cast in this movie, hot off his Oscar nomination for Hustle & Flow, and I’ve heard that because of that, he was actually the highest-paid actor in this movie.

RG: WHAAAAAAATTT??!!

DH: That, combined with rumours of those good old “creative differences”, was reportedly why he was replaced with Don Cheadle. I don’t know that Cheadle is the best fit for the part of Rhodey either, but I’ve always really liked him so I’m fine with it.

RG: Agreed, but I love Don Cheadle and he seems like a very nice person. It’s important to me that they only cast nice people in these movies (even though they totally cast known assholes like Josh Brolin sometimes).

Iron Man could have been a real flag-waving, anti-Muslim, racist garbage movie. I remember being concerned that both this and a Captain America movie could be total propaganda, especially given the political climate at the time they came out. Instead they made Stark a victim of his own arrogance and greed right off the bat. I liked that.

DH: It’s a fine line but they walk it really well. Just that shot of the grenade landing, and sitting there long enough for Stark to see his own company logo on it...pretty sharp.

RG: Watching this movie now, knowing where the franchise ends up and how important a role Tony Stark plays in it, I am kind of extra impressed by how well RDJ nails the character in this first movie. You are very emotionally invested in the character pretty much right away.

Not to get ahead of myself, but I remember being annoyed by Iron Man 2 because Tony Stark gets reduced to an annoying cartoon character and lacks the emotional levels that we see in this first movie and then later in The Avengers and in Iron Man 3. I’ve only seen Iron Man 2 once so I’ll see if I still feel that way when I re-watch it.

DH: Yeah, you’re not far off there--and the Altmanesque style of dialogue that seems so effortless & breezy in the first movie gets tired really quickly in the sequel.

RG: Again, not to get ahead of myself, but the emotional layers that Marvel Studios gave all of the characters (except Hawkeye) in these movies is, I think, a huge part of their success. But the humour keeps them from being overly angsty (Man of Steel).

DH: I feel like they truly are some of the first comic book movies where the filmmakers actually saw the value in the source material and honoured it (even while updating it for a moviegoing audience). As much as I enjoy pretty much every Batman movie ever made (well, maybe not the Shumacher ones), you can tell that the filmmakers in each case really just made the movies they wanted to make and didn’t really look to or care about the comics that spawned them. Even Donner’s Superman--as much as I love Hackman’s Luthor, he’s basically a Bond villain in comic book drag. But Iron Man set the template for how these movies could work if you actually acknowledged that the original comics were on to something. And that they could be fun without being TOO goofy, yet serious without taking themselves TOO seriously.

And maybe one day they’ll get Hawkeye right. He’s one of my all-time favourites in the comics, but I feel like they really missed the opportunity to give us a younger, cockier Hawkeye who had no interest in taking orders from a relic of the second World War. But maybe they’ll actually give him a personality in Age Of Ultron!

“My whole thing is that that I saw ‘The Dark Knight’. I feel like I’m dumb because I feel like I don’t get how many things that are so smart. It’s like a Ferrari engine of storytelling and script writing and I’m like, ‘That’s not my idea of what I want to see in a movie.’ I loved ‘The Prestige’ but didn’t understand ‘The Dark Knight’. Didn’t get it, still can’t tell you what happened in the movie, what happened to the character and in the end they need him to be a bad guy. I’m like, ‘I get it. This is so high brow and so f–king smart, I clearly need a college education to understand this movie.’ You know what? F-ck DC comics. That’s all I have to say and that’s where I’m really coming from.”

— Robert Downey Jr., Moviehole, 2008

RG: They spend a lot of the first act in the caves, which I think is ballsy but important. I think they could have done an Iron Man movie without a Mach 1 suit, but I’m so glad they took the time to include that. I love how the Mach 1 suit looks. And I love that he immediately gets his arm caught in the wall when he’s wearing it.

Perfect.

DH: That Mach 1 suit really is great. Even watching it again this time, I was struck by how cool it looks--how they obviously modified it and updated it, but how it’s still instantly recognizable as the original armour from the comics. And the fact that it’s largely done with practical effects is the icing on the cake.

“They had no script, man…They had an outline. We would show up for big scenes every day and we wouldn’t know what we were going to say. We would have to go into our trailer and work on this scene and call up writers on the phone, ‘You got any ideas?’ Meanwhile the crew is tapping their foot on the stage waiting for us to come on.”

— Jeff Bridges, In Contention, 2009

RG: Jeff Bridges is so goddamn good in this movie. The scene where he rips the arc reactor out of a paralyzed Tony's chest and holds it in front of his face while he monologues is so badass. He’s a fun choice for a villainous war monger. I don't think I've ever seen a villain quite like him before in a movie. I mean, the seemingly nice but actually evil father figure is nothing new, but he's just so loose and funny. The scene where he brings pizza back from the NYC board meeting is great.

DH: I love that he rides a Segway! That detail is both instantly dated and a dead giveaway that he’s the villain. Who the hell else beside Gob Bluth would be seen on one of those other than an evil bastard? Also, if I can get really nerdy here (and believe me, I can), the whole thing is kind of a reversal of the power dynamic he was a part of way back in the original Tron. This time though, instead of being the hotshot techy whiz kid, he’s the evil corporate dickbag!

Hee!

RG: I’m kind of amazed that the tech in this movie doesn’t really look dated. Except the phones. It's weird to see Tony Stark with a regular old cell phone. I'm writing this on my iPad and it kind of makes me feel like Tony Stark. I probably couldn't even fathom an iPad in 2008.

DH: The phones and, again, the Segway.

SHE WAS TOLD TO LOSE 12 LBS FOR THIS ROLE!

RG: Gwyneth Paltrow and Robert Downey Jr are so great in every scene together. I remember getting really annoyed with them in Iron Man 2, but I love them in this and in Iron Man 3 and The Avengers.

I read one interview with Gwyneth Paltrow where she talks about how she had to lose 12 lbs of “baby fat” to play the role. Like…who told her that? “Listen, Gwyneth, we’d love to have you in the movie, but, y’know, you’d have to deal with this whole situation. I mean, who would ever believe that you could be Robert Downey Jr’s love interest when you are such a fat mess?”

DH: I feel like this movie was a turning point of sorts for non-powered female characters in superhero movies. Previously, the female lead--Vicki Vale, Lois Lane, MJ--was usually just a screamy hostage. But the filmmakers really make Pepper into more of a sidekick. And, for the most part they haven’t really gone back, which is nice.

RG: Yeah, that’s a good point. Enough with the female characters just getting tied up and gagged!

They do a great job introducing the suit. Without dragging it out too much, because we already watched Stark build the Mach 1 suit in the cave, the scenes where he’s working in his lab with the cool 3D blueprints are very fun. That scene where Stark tests the boots for the first time in his workshop and immediately goes flying backward and hits the wall is so damn funny.

DH: The robot stuff in this movie was particularly interesting this time, given where everything is headed with Age Of Ultron.

This is how I want to get dressed in the morning.

RG: I love how complicated the Iron Man suit is. It “makes sense” the way they present it, with all the intricate pieces being attached to his body by robotic arms. The "inside the helmet" tech view looks really great, too, and allows us to see more of RDJ while he’s in the suit. Jarvis is very well done too.

DH: For sure. But as a longtime Avengers nerd, I really would have loved to have seen human Jarvis in these films (portrayed by the guy who plays Molesley on Downton Abbey, ideally). I mean, I know there’s a human Jarvis on Agent Carter, but one of these days, I just really want to see Jarvis bringing Captain America a cup of tea or something.

"Hey, would you watch a show that's mostly about me and some other agents? It will be set in the Marvel Universe, but with no super heroes..."

RG: I completely forgot that Agent Coulson was in this. Already! Man, what if this movie had somehow failed? Would we have gotten any more?

DH: It’s fascinating to think that somewhere out there in the multiverse there’s a world where this movie flopped, and there are petitions and Kickstarter campaigns to have the rest of the Avengers movies made, while Green Lantern made a billion dollars worldwide and spawned a DC movies dynasty.

RG: Terrifying.

I like that Tony Stark likes his drink, but they don't go full drunk in these movies. I expected, mostly due to RDJ, that they were going to get into Demon in a Bottle territory, but they never do. I much prefer this version of the character to drunken downward spiral Tony. And they kind of are able to use his PTSD in the third movie to tell a similar story.

DH: I don’t know that they could pull off an entire movie about his alcoholism. Would anyone want to watch that? I don’t think I would. It’s an interesting character detail for him to have that he likes his cocktails a bit too much, though--just a nice bit of shading, and a hint at a darker side of his personality.

I think I remember actually applauding this moment in the theatre.

RG: The first action scene with the suit is so awesome and fun and funny and also brutal. Stark goes on a crazy killing spree right off the bat. He's also so full of stubborn idealism in the aftermath scene back at his workshop with Pepper, it got me thinking about how his character kind of always was on the path that we now know leads to a 'Civil War' with Captain America.

My husband Matt's comment during the final fight: "I don't understand why the Transformers movie couldn't have looked like this." Exactly. These are some great looking robots.

DH: Whenever a new Transformers movie comes out, I always think of the Hugh Jackman movie Real Steel and think, “Why couldn’t the Transformers looked like the robots in this movie?” Those are some fun and cool robot designs, and the movie’s a lot of fun besides.

I'll bet the family in that car never stops telling people this story.

RG: Here is what I am struggling to remember: was the Nick Fury appearance at the end of the credits a total surprise, or did we know to expect it? In my memory it was a total surprise and we all lost our minds. It was early days of social media, so it wasn't as hard to avoid spoilers. But was it a closely guarded secret? Dave?

DH: I remember it being one of those “worst kept secret in Hollywood” kind of things, like Sean Connery’s cameo at the end of Robin Hood: Prince Of Thieves. Why else would we all have stuck around through the credits, unless we knew the key grip or the craft services people or something? I had a pretty good idea what we’d see, but the notion of connecting this movie to a planned series of Avengers solo movies, leading up to an Avengers movie...this was pretty impossible to comprehend at the time. I wasn’t really going to believe it until I saw it for myself.

I love Jackson as Fury and I like that scene overall, but I always thought the dialogue in it was a little too on the nose. “You’ve just taken your first step into a larger universe…” Way too nudge-nudge-wink-wink for me. Reportedly that scene was an uncredited Brian Michael Bendis job, and I can believe it. Subtlety is not his strong suit.

RG: Iron Man has a strong suit!

I feel like Iron Man 2 is what it would sound like to live in a Bendis comic. But we’ll get into that later!

RG: Marvel made a rare and very smart move when this movie came out: they re-launched the Invincible Iron Man comic series to align more with what people saw in the movie. This sort of thing is rarely done, for whatever reason. When The Dark Knight came out later this same year, DC killed off Bruce Wayne in the comics for awhile. And now that everyone is interested in Winter Soldier, he's living on the moon. But with this movie Marvel really nailed it with the comic book series. It was just really nice, working at a comic shop at the time, to have a good comic to recommend to people who had been introduced to the character via the movie.

DH: Yeah, the Marvel comics right now are kind of going out of their way right now to have their comics universe be basically unrecognizable to movie fans. Captain America is Sam Wilson, Thor is a woman, Iron Man is evil, and yeah, Winter Soldier lives on the moon. Ballsy, and some good comics (particularly Thor) have come from it, but is it wise? Probably not.

RG: Now that I think of it, the best bet comic for people interested in the film characters is the Black Widow series, which is awesome.

DH: I really feel like Jon Favreau’s part in helping to kick off the Marvel Cinematic Universe has kind of been swept under the rug after the first sequel was poorly received. Iron Man 2  is a mess, no doubt, but I don’t know that it can all be blamed on him; the expectations were impossibly high, not just for the movie but for its part in setting up all the other Marvel movies that were still in the planning stages. I also get the sense that Mickey Rourke just kind of did whatever the hell he felt like (another recent Oscar nominee throwing their weight around!).. However, I think he deserves a lot of credit for pulling the first Iron Man off so successfully--I’m not sure anyone else could have.

RG: It’s true! Jon Favreau: Man of the Century!

"No, the whole movie will be about me running a food truck. Do you think people would watch that?"

So next we’ll be watching Ed Norton’s short-lived contribution to the Marvel Movieverse, The Incredible Hulk. Stay tuned!

Everything is for Everybody.

I’m mad.

Between Gamergate, the horrifying stories about Jian Ghomeshi coming to light here in Canada, and the countless male celebrities who are just get to keep on keeping on after being accused, or even convicted, of rape and sexual assault, I am becoming a ball of rage.

It feels like a war is coming. People are choosing sides, and there have been good people speaking up and identifying themselves as feminists and reminding people who the bad guys are. But the bad guys are banding together. The internet is allowing them to easily find each other, and to form a community. They can convince themselves that they are a persecuted group.

I was born in 1980. Video games were new and exciting when I was growing up, and everyone played them. I don’t recall video games ever being identified as a male pursuit. I would play video games at arcades alongside my female and male friends. I would go to friends’ houses, mostly female, who were lucky enough to have a home computer or an Atari system and play video games endlessly. I couldn’t wait to get my hands on an NES, an SNES, and an N64. If I went to someone’s house and they had a Sega Genesis, I would play the hell out of that. When I was babysitting I would play any games they had after the kids were asleep. My parents played our NES as much as we did. I can say with confidence that my mother was addicted to Dr. Mario.

Video games in the 80s and early 90s were like television or movies: a form of entertainment that could be enjoyed by all. And there was such a variety of games out there, it would be ridiculous to say ‘I don’t like video games,’ and even more ridiculous to say ‘video games are for boys.’

Much like today.

But somewhere along the line video games, like comic books and sports, became something that girls aren’t supposed to like. Sure, you can play them, but they are not for you. So if you want to play video games, or read comic books, you just have to accept that they are crazy sexist. Because you’re the weird one for wanting to participate in this fun, fun past time.

I’ve been thinking a lot about when video games crossed over to boy territory and my earliest memory is when Goldeneye came out on N64 (still one of the best games ever). That was 1997. I remember girls in high school calling that game “the boyfriend stealer.” I also remember going to hang out with girls and boys and the girls would watch the boys play Goldeneye. And if they did pick up a controller it was in a really “Ohmygod! What do I do?! You’re just going to kill me! How do I use this thing?” kind of way. It bummed me out then, and now.

I would not call myself a ‘gamer’ but I am a grown-ass woman who can’t stop playing Marvel Puzzle Quest on my phone. Video games have always been in my life as a major source of entertainment. I would say I have spent more time playing video games than watching movies in my life. It’s not a community I belong to, it’s just something I do because video games are fun and EVERYONE PLAYS THEM.

When it comes to gender inequality I would say I was born angry. I have always been drawn to “boy” things: comic books, hockey, action movies, steak, beer, whatever. I have also rejected “girl” things almost my entire life. As a kid I was one of the boys, most of the time. I have a distinct memory of a schoolyard game when I was maybe seven or eight years old. The boys were rounding up girls and putting them in a “prison” (fun!). One of the boys grabbed me and another said “Rachelle doesn’t count. She’s a boy.”

What I am saying is I am the chosen one who will lead us to gender equality.

No, what I am saying is that it is absolutely time to stop compartmentalizing gender and the interests that men and women, boys are girls, are supposed to have.

I have said to others that I am, in some ways, relieved that both of my children are male because it means I don’t have to deal with being buried in pink frilly girl baby clothing and pink frilly girl baby expectations. The truth is, I would have loved to have a daughter. I would love the opportunity to raise a strong, smart woman. But part of me is thankful that I don’t need to watch my daughter face this world. I take the job of raising two respectful, thoughtful, sensitive men very seriously, though. Boys will not “be boys” in my house.

It seems ludicrous for people to be fired up about something as silly as video games. But, of course, that’s not really what people are fired up about. It’s about a privileged group losing a piece of its privilege. It’s about the top of the food chain being asked to share.

I haven’t really written in this blog for years. When I was actively writing it I was one of not too many female comic book bloggers (relatively speaking). Every time I dared to insert a little feminist critique into my posts, I would get emails and comments from horrible monster creeps. I didn’t delete the creepy comments. They are still there. The emails were worse, and I did delete those. It was a heady brew of insults and sexual advances. Nothing like what the poor women involved in Gamergate are going through, though.

I’m just angry and sad to live in a world where people like Anita Sarkeesian are getting death threats, but Chris Brown has a new hit album. Bill Cosby is a beloved icon. Woody Allen still makes a movie every year. Mike Tyson is a cartoon detective or whatever.

I feel that the comic book industry has made great strides in the years since I was writing this blog. It’s not perfect by a long shot, I am blown away by the respect that writers and artists are showing female characters, and by the way that fans are responding (positively). I hope the video game industry will do the same over the next several.

There will always be monsters, but I have to believe that there are more good people than bad in the world, and that we can be louder and stronger and we will come out of top.

At least that’s what comic books and video games have taught me.

Batman Begins Begins

gotham-tv-logo

I have been trying to gather my thoughts about the new Fox series Gotham since it debuted last week. I was really hoping for an Arrow-like experience that would restore my love of DC characters. So far I’m not getting that kind of high at all.

The series is set in 2009, which eliminates the challenge of writing suspenseful situations in a world full of smart phones. Also the characters aren’t burdened by the crushing disappointment of the Lost finale.

Here’s a breakdown of the characters we have seen so far:

Bruce Wayne is a little boy, but I would say older than ten years old. Twelve, maybe? His parents are killed in the series premier’s cold open (spoiler). Now he’s dealing with the emotional aftermath of that by burning and cutting himself, listening to loud metal music, and drawing scary things. Oh, television.

James “Jim” “Chino” Gordon is our hero. He has so far maintained one facial expression for the entire series. He’s basically Rex Banner. He is just a detective at this point, but he lives in what could be Bruce Wayne’s penthouse.

GCPD starting salary: $800,000

Barbara Kean is Gordon’s fiancée and she is WOODEN. She is also a closeted or former lesbian? Who used to date Renee Montoya? Because she is also a lesbian so of course?

Harvey Bullock is a terrible man who is partnered with Gordon. I don’t know if we are supposed to sympathise with this character at all. I don’t.

Alfred Pennyworth is a cool, younger, tougher version of the iconic Wayne butler character. I’m into him.

Selina “Cat” Kyle is a young street hoodlum, stealing to survive. She’s tough and cool and is maybe 13 years old? The actress who plays her is very beautiful and looks a lot like comic book Selina Kyle. I like her.

Training to be Batman's Wife

Oswald Cobblepot is a weird, young psychopath who is largely underestimated by the Gotham underground. They will regret this.

Edward Nygma works for the forensics department of GCPD. He is super annoying and constantly dropping riddles. I’ll bet he becomes The Riddler.

Renee Montoya and Crispus Allen are on this show! I was excited about that. So far they haven’t had a ton to do but I expect they will become allies of Gordon and will provide a lot of the procedural drama part of the show.

Fish Mooney is an original character as far as I know. She’s played by Jada Pinkett Smith so she gets a LOT of screen time. Jada is CHOMPING scenery but it’s enjoyable.

There are some other characters too, like Carmine Falcone and Mayor Richard Kind. They are fine.

The show is 90% dick measuring in the form of men, usually Gordon and Bullock, standing half and inch away from each other and yelling in each other’s faces.

"Go back to Chino, kid."

There’s also a lot of wink, nudge moments that are a little clunky, like the aforementioned riddling of the future Riddler. Or a young red-headed girl named Ivy gently nurturing a bunch of house plants.

The writers cram every cliché they can think of into this show, and overall I just want to fast forward ten seasons so it can be about Batman. There are two intriguing elements of the show for me so far:

1. Jim Gordon developing a friendship/partnership with young Bruce Wayne;
2. Selina Kyle witnessing the Wayne murders and secretly watching Gordon and Bruce Wayne. I hope to see a Selina/Bruce friendship develop.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there is plenty of super hero entertainment to go around these days, so if this show never gets better I’ll be fine with not watching it. These aren’t the desperate times of Smallville and Ghost Rider movies. With The Flash, Constantine, and a new season of Arrow on deck, there’s lots to watch.

What's distracting me from comics this time increment?

So: I wrote something on this blog for the first time in forever the other day (read: several weeks ago). I liked doing it - I enjoy writing in general and writing about comics in particular - so why don't I do that all the time? There really is no good reason, but in thinking about it I realized that there are a whole lot of terrible reasons. Thus, this post.

First, some backstory. I started writing on Paul and John Review, the blog that would eventually be folded into Living Between Wednesdays, in 2006. I had just moved back to Nova Scotia after impulsively moving to BC for a few years. I was broke, single and had a terrible call centre job. I also had an Internet connection and time on my hands. This combination led very naturally to me reading/writing about a lot of silly Silver Age comic books, those being my most frequent Muse.

Eight years have passed. I am chunkier, baldier and beardier. I got hitched, I got a dog (not necessarily in that order). Most critically, I am no longer broke all the time, and I still have that Internet connection, which means that I have an absurd array of interesting things to occupy my time with. No reading silly Silver Age comics precludes writing about silly Silver Age comics.

But! Most of these things are incredibly nerdy, and thus a perfect fit for LBW. Plus, I am woefully out of writing trim, and getting back in practice while simultaneously expanding my horizons is just plain a good idea.

Here's the first thing, and the one that I probably have the least to say about: new comics. There are so dang many good comics coming out right now. And! I'm (temporarily) living far away from Strange Adventures, which means I'm using Comixology - I am basically inundated with the dang things! Oh, the woes that I have to face.

In any case, tune in next time increment for more discussion of the incredible hardship that I face every day.